I was very tired, I wasn't prepared. Now, the camera itself wasn't
a really professional one, just an advertising gimmick, a throw-away one
so you can't do any special things with it. There were some of people,
homeless people, they're here.
- For example, there was no problem with this one. I couldn't solve
the problem of light in the dark metro because the flash wasn't strong
enough.
- This is me in this one (1).
- This gentleman was very nice, an idea occurred to me: in the early
morning the poor unfortunates get up sleepy because they sleep outside.
It was taken in summer. I gave him a coin, 20 forints, that was the bait
(2).
The poor guy sat for it, he was delighted with the 20. When he saw it his
eyes lit up.
- They weren't difficult because they were half-asleep but just to
be on the safe side I had the camera under my arm, you should know that
not every homeless person in Budapest reacts favourably to being photographed
(3).
I had the experience in a 'populaire soup', that a muslim homeless person
smashed up the place just because two photographers came in. Just like
that. And it's not just the muslims who see it like that. That chain is
a dog's chain.
- Here, too, in places like this, for example, places like this soup
kitchen, I won't say which it is, well, there it's especially dangerous.
They get drunk and react differently. They don't want to become the butt
of peoples' jokes, and they're right. As far as I'm concerned if by chance
someone photographs me I don't bother with it, I've got over it. It's not
that I feel that I should be accepted as a homeless person but a lot of
people don't want to be photographed because they feel that somehow thay
won't be able to escape their situation. In me there's something which
makes me try to keep myself afloat.
- However... here, for example, I'm in the photo as well (4).
I can't stand the 'wooden bench' (night shelter) for a long time because
I destroy my reputation. You should know that my nerves can't stand the
'wooden bench' for a long time, often, even if the homeless people don't
hate me at all, I'm not incompatible, I can fit in, in this group aswell.
I've already learned how in Paris among the clochards, where life isn't
like it is here, it's a lot harder... But sometimes it happens that I go
and sleep outside for several days because I can't stand it in here. Miklós
st. is fairly alright. I consider that to be the most developed socially.
I'd like to go back there but I'm not sure how long the punishment ban
is going to continue. I still haven't asked him but when he saw me last
he said, "Lajos, I feel that you should remain there and then we'll see."
Because of my incident. I want to say to him that I can't stand it for
a long time because I can't wash; I'm with students all day, I can't go
to a place where I can wash in the daytime because I only have time in
the evening.
- I don`t want to..., but he's an educated man. All I can say is what
I've heard, I don't want to say anything stupid but he's supposedly a teacher.
What he's carrying in this photo is all his belongings (5).
This person, I wouldn't like if the poor man heard because he doesn't tell
anyone but in this pack he carries his tent, his food, his everything.
He was a teacher who stumbled and fell. He's one of the most tragic figures
in Budapest.
- This is an old clochard, a really nice little man, this life is good
for him (6).
Because there are people for whom this is freedom, they're alright, they
watch the birds, they drink their wine, they chat with people about their
memories, they get warm sometimes in some places, they sleep outside, I've
got a thick coat, it protects me...
- This is an unfortunate person, he's often on Blaha Lujza square (7).
He reportedly had quite a lot of money, it was taken away. Who it was,
I don't know, supposedly his child.
- (What's this?) I don't really know. A plastic bag (8).
I don't know. I guess that as I was taking the photos from underneath my
arm I must have shot too low.
- Here it's the silent waiting for food, in front of the soup kitchen
(9).
Nuns do it.
- The truth is that I wouldn't take these type of photos if I had a
proper camera, I've seen a lot. You could take a lot of photos if you're
not busy and day after day you're on the street and you've got some stimulus
to take photos- anyway if I'm not working then I go out and draw. Statues,
I think, only statues. But while going out searching for statue themes
I see an awful lot of interesting things. The interesting thing is that
the photos are not only of homeless people, there are different things
as well. It's scary. Since I was told originally to photograph homeless
people and as there were onlt 30 exposures in the camera I was afraid that
if I randomly took photos of things that they don't understand then they'd
ask why I was sent out to take photos.
- This picture, so this is that spontaneity, when you just...something...boom!
I don't remember but it might be here, some sort of sack might have been
on it (10).
It's also possible that I didn't take it deliberately although now I see,
I didn't even see that, that I took it automatically, from underneath my
arm, very low. Now, they might look like this, these red shadows because
I was in a red anorak.
- Here, I was naughty enough to ask someone to take my picture. I sat
down on purpose, I thought that I'd see how I look as a clochard. I was
a little selfish, saying to myself, let's see how you look. The people
who saw the photo all said, wow, what a cool clochard. You're joking, you
don't recognize me? That's me (11).
- This was taken near Klinikák metro station (12).
- Here, now, this has a bit of a Harlem atmosphere and maybe this one,
too (13).
- I guess in those pictures when they're looking at me, when the person
in question is reacting in some way to me, they knew that they were being
photographed. I don't really know them well. This old guy bought me the
odd wine every now and then, you know, from the neck of a plastic bottle
(6).
- I don't remember there, I haven't got a clue what I was shooting.
It might as well be in Paris (14). An eclectic, well heeled district, ha
ha!
(Did you live in a flat in Paris?) I lived in a truck-park in winter,
at Orly till the end of April and at the Hungarian Catholic Mission, temporarily,
as well as outside. I was in Paris 25 years ago, I always liked the French,
or rather, French art, graphic art, the city itself, it's gothic, it's
churches, I like French film, the actors, that milieu, Jean Gabin, Lefebvre.
(Do you speak French?) No, I can understand some things. I was there for
3 years..
When I left I was already homeless, in Pécs. I'm from Pécs.
At that time there weren't as many homeless as there are now but fate brought
a few things my way- my parents died, I got divorced soon after and all
my money just disapeared. My wife got some, I blew my share, I sold stuff,
in the end I was left with nothing, skint as the circumcized. After that
I managed for a while in my hometown. Then I said to myself that if I went
to a Guatemalan ghetto I wouldn't feel as alone. My relatives abandoned
me, the usual reaction, I had a little money put aside, an international
passport, I headed south. I was lucky because I could do a bit of drawing,
that's another reason why I'd like to go back to Paris, it would be possible
to do it here as well but somehow I don't feel that milieu here, the competition
is really wild here, as far as portrait drawing goes. Since I started to
live in hostels, I haven't been able to store anything. Now, if I start
to draw again in Spring I can bring what I do into the school where I model,
I used to study there, they told me I could bring stuff in. They really
helped me,even if they couldn't get me a job in my proffession then they
could still offer me modelling work.
I'm very interested by the expressive re-working of life, I really
like Dostoyevsky, one time myself and a guy I know who worked in film wanted
to make a version of one of his short stories but, you know, if you live
this kind of life then you don't have the opportunity to do that sort of
thing because if an artist has the desire, to express the suffering, then
he can work in a calm studio; you need a chair, a table, a room because
the way things are with me now, disgust comes quickly, you just get disgusted.
Photos: mid July 1997
Interview: 1 March 1998.
